sca_attire | For discussion: Your favorite periods

1. If you have a persona or other reenactment focus, what period and place is that?

My SCA persona is 16th century Spanish, probably about 1560s. This portrait of Elizabeth de Valois is an example of my favorite style.

One of my goals this year is to produce a distinctively Spanish outfit, either 16th or 14th century.

2. What is/are your favorite periods/places for clothing?

1580s English, 1560s Italian (a la Eleonora of Toledo), 1560s Spain, 14th century Europe in general, and 13th-14th century Mongol Empire.

3. What period/place would you like to learn more about for clothing?

Spain, really. I want to do some really deep research, which I suspect is going to require learning more Spanish.

4. Are there any post-1600 areas of dress you're interested in as well?

I'm kind of intrigued by English Civil War, but I hate sewing, sew slowly, and have nowhere to wear an ECW gown, so I'm unlikely to pursue that any time soon. ETA: Also Age of Sail, specifically British naval uniforms. If I lived on a coast, I'd be looking for a reenactment group.

Edited 2010-04-07 17:34 (UTC)

1. I'm unofficially attached to a living history group, through the former high school of a friend of mine. They're centered in the 940's- though come to think of it, their group's "history" may have turned to the next century now. Their story is centered in Scotland, but my character is Irish, and was married to a Welshman. (Until he got dead during an etiquette lesson from an employee of my current employer, which I promptly thanked her for... long story.)
2. I really like the look of German styles, but I can't afford anything new right now, since I now have a full outfit.
3. Oh, I'm a firm novice when it comes to design and making stuff myself. Everything, please!
4. Pioneer Northern America, early 1800s.

1. Oooh, that's a tough period and place to research--not a lot of sources.

Happily enough, the living history group did most of the work before I got there. My friend who introduced me to them (it was based out of his high school) majored in history with a specialty in Medieval Studies; we met in college. Actually I also grew up going to Ren Faires as a kid, with my parents, but until I met these folks in college I probably hadn't been for ten years.

The group mostly works faires by running a version of "Highlander Games" for small children- which is a lot of fun to watch- and then teaching some of the simpler skills to the adults who don't look like they're going to injure themselves or others. My job is to hang out and be a fan- shouting Huzzahs, joking with the group, encouraging mundanes to participate. I don't get in for free, but it gives me somewhere to go when I want to sit down and people to have lunch with.

That sounds fun!

We had impromptu "caber" tossing at an event once (the site really shouldn't have left big logs lying around), while the autocrat carefully stayed at the other end of the site. It was highly entertaining. (Our cabers were way too small, though.)

Hi! I am not officially an SCA member, but I seem to spend quite a lot of time in their companies anyway, and I love period costume (and re-enactment in general.)

1. If you have a persona or other reenactment focus, what period and place is that?

12th-15th century English Midlands, as a sort of peasant/freewoman. Though I am of the opinion that since present-day me dresses in a mish-mash of styles old, new, and nonexistent, in a merry disregard for fashion, my re-enactment persona ought to be allowed to do the same!

(Actually, I went to Pennsic last summer, wore outfits I pulled out of my everyday casual wardrobe, and got compliments on my garb at least once a day. One cannot overestimate the value of a) proper headcovering, and b) outfits that are as worn as if they're everyday wear rather than costumes.)

Also, right now, I am doing a Tudor men's court outfit for an SCA wedding I'm going to be in. Crossplay=win, and so are crossdressing Shakespearean heroines. (I am hoping to be able to mix and match things like the doublet and the shirt to get most of a women's Tudor outfit out of it, too.)

2. What is/are your favorite periods/places for clothing?

I cannot pick a favorite! I like all of the SCA period! But in general, I'm more interested in what the commoners and bourgeousie are wearing than in noblewomen, which tends to be harder to source to specific times and locations anyway. And I tend to stick to Northern/Western Europe because I am neurotic about appropriation issues.

3. What period/place would you like to learn more about for clothing?

If I did set up a proper SCA persona, I would love to do an English nun from the High Middle Ages, of the not-terribly-pious sort who went to the Church in order to have a career rather than to be a religious servant, and do a completely accurate habit right down to the underclothes - one thing I really noticed at Pennsic was the extreme shortage of people in religious personae - but I would be starting the research pretty much from scratch.

I've also been collecting scraps for some time about middle-class 16th century Protestant German costumery. And in the "pie in the sky" department, I would love to be able to take an authentic 13th century Cahokian persona to SCA events - you know, actually play a local - but there is *so* little easily available research about North America in that period, and doing it badly would be far worse than doing it not at all.

4. Are there any post-1600 areas of dress you're interested in as well?

Early American colonial - 17th and very early 18th century, especially in the mid-Atlantic colonies. Also pre-Raphaelite, Artistic, and Reform dress in the late 19th century, leading to early 20th century fashion in general, though I lose interest shortly after Utility fashion in the 1940's (when hemlines start to creep ever closer to - gasp! - the knees.)

Hi! I am not officially an SCA member, but I seem to spend quite a lot of time in their companies anyway, and I love period costume (and re-enactment in general.)

This community is not just for SCA members. :)

1. Crossplay=win, and so are crossdressing Shakespearean heroines. (I am hoping to be able to mix and match things like the doublet and the shirt to get most of a women's Tudor outfit out of it, too.)

Ha, so much. I don't make high-necked smocks, since I like all my shirts to do double-duty and the only difference between a high-necked smock and a shirt is under the clothing where no one can see. Doublets can mix and match pretty well, too, although it depends both on how busty you are and how convincingly male you want to look (my boy doublets can be worn with skirts, but they flatten me more than is completely ideal for an Elizabethan woman, especially middle-class).

2. I cannot pick a favorite! I like all of the SCA period! But in general, I'm more interested in what the commoners and bourgeousie are wearing than in noblewomen, which tends to be harder to source to specific times and locations anyway.

Likewise. I think one can do that type of clothing to a higher authenticity level, too--and most of the trim involves massive amounts of time rather than money!

And I tend to stick to Northern/Western Europe because I am neurotic about appropriation issues.

Yeah, that's part of why I eventually switched my persona from Mongol to Spanish, although I'm still really interested in medieval Mongol clothing.

3. I think part of the reason for the shortage of religious personae (Templars aside) is a general SCA discomfort with religion combined with a feeling that career religious personae are kind of appropriation. Personally, I'm okay with pretending to be a Catholic noblewoman, but I wouldn't feel comfortable as an agnostic pretending to be a nun.

It would be an interesting project, but I doubt we're ever going to see a lot of religious personae in the SCA.

I am flat-chested enough that I have never *found* a Tudor-period bodice or doublet pattern that doesn't flatten me completely, so I have just more or less decided to stop worrying about it and just be an unfashionably flat-chested woman when I do Rennaissance. (Though if you have recommendations...)

For this outfit, though, I have a jerkin for the outer layer, so I think I'm tailoring the jerkin along masculine lines and then letting the doublet have curves under it. (I've actually been looking for a period-ish binder pattern, too, though I doubt I need one, but I would like to be able to wander around in only the shirt and pass; I found one for civil war re-enactors that I might use, but I'm kind of surprised I couldn't find anything SCA-oriented. Anyway that should probably be a top-level post on this community :D)

Since I am actively Christian (and while not Catholic, from a High Church Protestant tradition that's nearly as close to Medieval Catholic as anything these days) I don't have the same worries, but I do understand that issue, especially since it seems like most SCAdians aren't religious. Wandering around Pennsic - which in so many ways really is totally immersive - and noticing the almost total lack of anything Christian in otherwise-accurate periods that should be drenched in it was weird, though. Leaving that out is leavingn out half of what made the medieval world. (There wasn't even a non-denominational public eSunday prayer service or even a chapel on-site, which surprised me; there must be a few Christian clergy at a thing like Pennsic, and even the local renfest has a a chapel.)

And I think that there aren't the same appropriation issues around Christianity that there are around other cultures, since it is so dominant, as long as it's approached with respect, and nobody's doing things like actually mocking the Sacraments. I know there are some people who have religious persona - there was one at our camp, and there were a few monks and nuns around - and I think many of them are agnostic/atheist/pagan in RL. If a miracle happened and I did decide I had the time and energy to get really active in SCA, what I would love to do is help organize an umbrella group for people whose persona have a major religious element (Christian or not) that could do things like have a camp at Wars that's under the Benedictine rule and organize demonstration period prayer services and things.

I do get that a lot of people are uncomfortable dealing with religion, and especially religions not their own, though.

Well, flat-chested was fashionable. The boobs-on-a-platter look is mostly a modernism. Even quite large-busted women in 16th century portraits generally don't show cleavage. This is what I look like in a doublet gown over a boned back-lacing kirtle:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosettastones/3523341034/

What I found for me was that a front-lacing, un-boned canvas-stiffened kirtle lifts what little I have just enough to give me a slight high bustline that creates a period silhouette under other clothing. I'm still nearly flat, but I like the look a bit better.

In generally, I've found front-lacing and less boning gives me more of a bust. But I also suspect that through the 16th century, except possibly in the highest class, heavily boned pairs of bodies or kirtles weren't common, and that the smooth cone look was achieved by layers of dresses (early Tudor women, for example, seem to be wearing at least three layers over the smock on their torsos, and probably more layers of skirts). This is all quite heavy and not always suited to modern climates, but it's amazing what multiple layers, some stiffened with canvas, will do to smooth things out. And working and middle-class portraits pretty widely show bodies that doesn't appear to be boned, and fewer layers--Italian, English, Low Countries, and Spanish--you see bust curves and wrinkling in all of them.

Anyway that should probably be a top-level post on this community

It should! I really want to do serious drag at events, not just obvious-girl-wearing-boy-clothes, and I've been wondering about binding options, particularly ones that would be comfortable enough for camping.

Leaving that out is leavingn out half of what made the medieval world.

It is, and see: SCA allergy to religion. I believe the rules are that you can hold religious services in your campsite, but nothing quasiofficial--so a site chapel would be out. I'm not sure. Perhaps it might be worth poking through Corpora?

And I think that there aren't the same appropriation issues around Christianity that there are around other cultures, since it is so dominant, as long as it's approached with respect, and nobody's doing things like actually mocking the Sacraments.

It's not so much appropriation--I agree--just not something I'm comfortable with because I'm never quite sure how much I do respect religion on a fundamental level. I just feel weird about playing spiritual dress up. But that's me, obvs, and I don't know how other people feel about it.

Edited 2010-04-07 18:20 (UTC)

1. 13th century Ukrainian/Russian
2. Russia. I do Viking because it's easy often though
3. hmm. some time easy to make?
4. Not so much.

2. Russian's pretty easy, too! It's basically tunics with a slightly different construction.

If you still lived locally, I have some resources you might find helpful. Did you ever meet Geffroi (

kellan_the_tabby)? She used to have a Russian persona (not sure what name she used then) and might be able to point you at some resources.

4. You are such a Scadian. :-P

No, I never met her.

I am... but if you think about it researching history is what I do "professionally" - all my time goes into it. That makes it really hard to have more than one outside research interest. The brain can only handle so much research at a time!

Heh, yes.

Let me see what I can find for Russian resources. Have you seen this? It's basic instructions for making a rubakha, which is really all you need to get started on Russian clothing:

http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/rubakha.html

It has a few more pieces than most tunics, but it's still basic rectangular construction.

That's a really great site in general.

Thanks :)

I'm not officially SCA; one of my goals is to not stick out as a total mundane the next time I happen to get invited to http://www.potrerowar.org/ as part of an existing camp for a few days -- I managed a couple years ago to blend in all right in peasanty garb, but I almost didn't manage even that on short notice.

One of these days I'm going to manage some age of sail outfits for myself... I cosplay various sci-fi and fantasy settings sometimes, and am just getting into steampunk, so any opportunity to learn basic construction techniques which I can later remix is always greatly appreciated. Nobody does fundamentals and details like the SCA folks! :-)

That's okay, neither is this community. :)

Age of Sail is awesome! If I lived on a coast, I would definitely be looking for an AoS group to play with.

1. If you have a persona or other reenactment focus, what period and place is that?

I primarily have a 10th century Danish persona, but more generally I'm attracted to the Viking Age, especially outside of 'central' Scandinavia.

2. What is/are your favorite periods/places for clothing?
I love the Finnish and Baltic styles, around 10-12th centuries, and 16-17th c. Korean.

3. What period/place would you like to learn more about for clothing?
I wouldn't mind learning more about when those beautiful ruffled veils were in fashion, especially in Poland.

4. Are there any post-1600 areas of dress you're interested in as well?
I am interested in Victorian-era hairwork in mourning jewellery, but I've never thought about the clothes, I'd have nowhere to wear it.

Have you seen Medieval Silkwork on frilled headwear? Isis did her dissertation on it and there are a lot of posts about the topic.

1. If you have a persona or other reenactment focus, what period and place is that?
Late 800's Novgorod area, Russia. I'm a Varangian! ....You have no idea how interesting that gets.

2. What is/are your favorite periods/places for clothing?
I like the very early periods - and Viking is almost period for my focus because at that time they were still more Viking than Slavic, but the Slavic was creeping in. I have a Slavic spelling of a Norse name - Olga instead of Helga.

3. What period/place would you like to learn more about for clothing?
Early early Russia

4. Are there any post-1600 areas of dress you're interested in as well?
Pre colonial India! ....That kinda comes out of left field...

You should subscribe to

pearl! She posts interesting Slavic and Viking research stuff all the time!

There's a Laurel in my barony who does Indian, I think fairly late-period. It's a really interesting area for clothing and textiles.

Ooo Am subscribing!

The Laurel in my area is the Kingdom A&S Minister and Dame Dredda (who likes to call herself 'Damn Dredda' for some reason - it's awesome to have a retired Lt. Col.[USAF] as your KA&S Minister) and her biggie is leatherworking and bookbinding. Can't sew a stitch. It was so much fun to watch her try and figure out a serger for banner making.

I know a few people who handsew everything and can't use machines. They're quite different beasts.

(Bookbinding involves sewing! Kind of specialized sewing, actually. My first headband was pretty lumpy.)

I am not in the SCA! Because, oh God, it's a time suck that I do not have time for. Though I wish I did.

That said, I have been known to research Turkish, Persian, and other Middle Eastern garb of various eras, specifically because I want to know what's actually historical, and what belly dancers have come up with because it looks pretty, but is only vaguely accurate, if at all. Not that there's anything wrong with not-historical-but-pretty for belly dancers; I just want to know the difference, that's all.

(I'm sure this post wasn't directed at people like me, so feel free to ignore my comment, of course, if it doesn't fit with what you're doing.)

This post is directed at everyone in the community, no worries!

Actually historical Middle Eastern is one of my interests as well, even though I don't dance (although I want to get into drumming). I compiled a bunch of resources for

sca_garb several years ago on that very topic, although they're not all online, so that would be an easy resource post to start off with.

The SCA is SUCH a timesuck. It works for me because almost all of my hobbies fit into an SCA framework, but it also means I think "Gosh, it would be cool to do this modern embroidery project...but I can't use it in the SCA. so I won't" fairly frequently.

1. 7th Century Ireland... leaning towards Northern Ireland, but, the archaeological evidence is scant enough that anything close is useful.
2. For clothing? What era don't I like? ::sighs:: I've often joked about going incognito in Elizabethan because no one would believe it was me.
3. Honestly, I'd love to learn more about my own period. There's just so little out there.
4. I love Victorian to be honest. I'd really like to make a full late-Victorian outfit.

2. Haha, when I joined the SCA, I was all "no dresses! no late period!" and now I do 16th century dresses almost all the time. I don't know what happened!

I'm definitely in the SCA (waves hello to

pearl).

1. If you have a persona or other reenactment focus, what period and place is that?
LITHUANIA! (As

pearl well knows.) I'm kind of a "secular evangelist" on the subject. Granted, the material culture of the medieval Baltic region isn't as well known as the cultures of Western Europe, especially on this side of the pond, but it did exist. Circa 1400 CE, Lithuania was the biggest country in Europe. So, my pet peeve is books that have titles like "Europe in the Middle Ages" or "Medieval Shoes" or "Battles of the Dark Ages" and don't mention ANYTHING about Lithuania. Sorry, authors, but your books aren't complete!

2. What is/are your favorite periods/places for clothing?
For garb that I have or want to get soon? I'm trying to get a little bit of garb from a lot of different eras, because a traveling Lithuanian woman would probably want to blend in with the local culture. :-) I have a couple of Italian Renn dresses, a Cavalier silk dress that gets lots of raves (but I didn't sew it), a sideless surcoat, and a bunch of tunic-type dresses. I want to make myself at least one Viking apron dress to match my barony's heraldry.

3. What period/place would you like to learn more about for clothing?
Lithuania! *grin* Seriously, there aren't a whole lot of preserved grave goods or paintings, especially from the pre-Christian days. I've seen some photos of early-period non-SCA reenactors in Lithuania, but I don't know where they got their clothing ideas. Very late-period Lithuanians seem to look pretty German from the few paintings I've seen online, so I have to learn more about the similarities and differences.

4. Are there any post-1600 areas of dress you're interested in as well?
Well, I have one -- count 'em, one -- photograph of my paternal grandmother, who died in 1934. I'd like to make a copy of the dress she's wearing in that photograph (circa 1932) and pose for a similar portrait. Just a tribute to the grandmother I never got to meet.

1. Circa 1400 CE, Lithuania was the biggest country in Europe.

I did not know that!

Sorry, authors, but your books aren't complete!

*g*

I hear you on the lack of preserved clothing and other evidence--that's been a big frustration for me, especially with Mongol Empire (although the number of published extant garments, especially in English, has about quadrupled in the last five years, there still aren't many of them). I kind of love the challenge and hate the frustration at the same time--but it feels so awesome to break new research ground!

For discussion: Your favorite periods

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:-)

Re: :-)

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